Air Brush Painting Painting Tips Fabric Painting Modeling Techniques Modeling Tips Airbrush Art Airbrush Nails Acrylic Paint Thinner Minis More information ... People also love these ideas There a many different home brew recipes for making your own airbrush paint thinner, and cleaner on the Internet. I've tried a few and had mixed results, some better than others. This recipe worked well for me. But have you ever thought of making your own homemade airbrush reducer / cleaner from scratch? Because, remember, the above recipes are only ideal for water based paints. This site is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Browsing around the Internet there are hundreds of home-brew recipes for water-based paint reducer. What Do You Thin Tamiya Acrylic With For Airbrushing. That being said, let’s dive into the top home brewed airbrush paint thinner and cleaner recipes available on the internet.eval(ez_write_tag([[300,250],'airbrushinsider_com-banner-1','ezslot_9',111,'0','0'])); I stumbled across this recipe a while back and have found it to work the absolute best for my needs when compared to the line up of different recipes listed on this page. For me, This recipe worked similar to that of recipe # 1 above. Mixing ratio is 2 parts thinner 3 parts water. Copyright © 2021 TacAir Publications, LLC. To create the glycerol mixture, pour distilled water into a small bottle, and add glycerol in a ratio of five parts water to every one part glycerol. Just mix in equal proportions water, 96º alcohol and windex. Air Brush Painting .. However (and this may be dependent on the paint brand I’m using “Createx”), I noticed when trying to apply it to plastic parts. So what about costs? But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a great recipe. Hi, I'm colt, the one behind... How To Use Createx Airbrush Paint! Do note, airbrush paint reducer can commonly be used as a cleaning agent. But I’d suspect even small exposure periods could do some harm over time. The gentleman in the video recommended a mix of 33% alcohol to 67% distilled water. Tamiya’s water based acrylic paint can be thinned with their proprietary X20-A acrylic thinners, iso-propyl alcohol (IPA), distilled water, and I’ve even shown that it can be thinned with regular tap water with outstanding results, but few people seem to realise that it can also be thinned with Tamiya lacquer thinner. 4.4 out of 5 stars 1,045. So sit back, and read along. The resulting thinner mixture smells about the same as Tamiya's thinner and while you'll still want to use some ventilation, this thinner is far more family friendly than pure alcohol and more effective (for me at least) than pure water. Homemade Paint .. An acrylic medium such as airbrush can be a good alternative to water. 99.9% Isopropyl Alchohol can be found for around $3 USD/pint (473 ml). Jul 2, 2014 - Thinning Paint for an airbrush - YouTube. There I was one sleepless night cruising through YouTube videos and I happened across a subject that caught my eye - making your own acrylic thinner. And simply use the below recipes on practice projects. I've discussed this with some knowledgeable folks who thin their acrylics with water (or windshield washer fluid). However using this recipe I had a lot of soap suds inside my airbrush paint cup which began to get annoying. Assuming your using water based paints. "How To Thin Acrylic Paint For Airbrush" is the question that all modelers are curious about. Explore. But after testing many of them, It came down to the 3 listed above that I preferred the most, And found the most success with. Heck I even have a large stash of the old floquil military colors which are my favorite enamels. Airbrush Insider is dedicated to helping all in the airbrush community! This is the first and only concentrated DIY airbrush thinner for self formulation. link to Airbrush Cleaning Equipment (Solutions, Tools & Supplies), link to How To Use Createx Airbrush Paint! Water breaks down the binder in acrylic, thinning the paint so that it looks like watercolor and allows it to sink into the surface, resulting in a … For the most part, the ingredients found below are either close to, or substitutes for the ingredients commonly found in the big name airbrush paint reducers and cleaners.eval(ez_write_tag([[468,60],'airbrushinsider_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_3',108,'0','0'])); With that being said. I use 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol as the lesser strength alcohols are not as effective (according to the folks that taught me the alcohol approach years ago) and is likewise recommended in the video. There are four ingredients: Distilled water Isopropyl Alcohol (99.9%) Acrylic Flow Improver Acrylic Fluid Retarder Not solvent based. The few times I've tried water were enough to keep me on the alcohol path (sounds like W.C. Fields, doesn't it?). The bulk of paint manufacturers offer paint thinners on the market that have been specifically... Airbrush Acrylic Medium. Art. Well, that is the goal today. I didn't try using this mixture for airbrush cleanup as I use Windex window cleaner with ammonia for that job. Likely the simplest out of the line up of recipes listed here. But not a non-yellowing artists' quality medium for permanent projects. And this recipe literally comes the closest to achieving the same result as seen with the manufacturers recommended reducer. Thin the acrylic paint mixture by adding water at 50% water and 50% paint Pour the paint into the tight-lidded container, then add the equivalent amount of water Tightly close the lid of the container and shake it until the paint and water are well mixed Explore. But using an airbrush its a different story. Painting Techniques. The Flow Improver cost about $12 USD for 250 ml and the Fluid Retarder about $10 USD for 118 ml. I've had really great results using alcohol as an acrylic thinner for paints from Tamiya, Gunze Sangyo (Aqueous/Mr.Hobby), Vallejo, Italeri, and Akan (don't try this with Testors Acryl, it took some time to clean the resulting goo from my airbrush). Acrylic paint can be thinned for airbrushing by adding distilled water to the paint until it has the same consistency as milk. Celebrating 21 years of hobby news and reviews. But for those looking to start... Airbrush Insider Is Your Source For Insider Information Related To Airbrushing. That is the why I employ the airbrush every time I work! I have found the process of Airbrushing to be very therapeutic, and allows me to utilize the creative side of my brain to a greater extent! eval(ez_write_tag([[250,250],'airbrushinsider_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_7',109,'0','0'])); I must specify, the below formulas for creating your own airbrush thinner / cleaner (At home) are meant to be used with water based acrylic paints, inks and so forth… When working with solvent based paints you are going to require a different subset of solvents for paint reduction and cleanup of those paints. The Windex doesn't thin the acrylics, it dissolves them and running Windex through the airbrush doesn't leave any foul smells (but if your spouse does ask about the smell, tell her you're cleaning your room). He recommends an interesting mixture that merited a test. Homemade airbrush paint thinner has likely been made since the airbrush was first conceived. Dec 25, 2017 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. If you'd like to learn more about me, be sure to check me out over on my About Page, Airbrush Cleaning Equipment (Solutions, Tools & Supplies). Dec 25, 2017 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. Mix with distilled water to produce your own sure-fire airbrush thinner. Now, I’m not sure exactly how true either of these assumptions are about using ammonia for paint reduction, and cleanup. But of course you are free to do as you please. To thin acrylic paint, start by putting a small amount of paint on your palette. To be honest, I had been stuck on this Idea of making my own paint thinner / cleaner for quite some time… I did all sorts of research, along with a bunch of testing / comparing with different home brewed recipes on the internet and after much consideration, I have come up with a few recipes that I feel are the best. Homemade Acrylic Thinner After posting the big list of excuses it seemed like now would be a good time to post something interesting and useful, a bit of sucking up … But personally, I enjoy the process of shading and using gradients in order to achieve a photo realistic, 3D image of my choosing! £14.99 £ 14. However, to help you out with all your acrylic thinning needs we have brought a guide that not only covers the basics behind the process but some of the more advanced steps as well. In higher pressure, large covering jobs that is not an issue, but it renders the airbrush useless for lower pressure, luftwaffe mottling painting. Discover much more in the new eMagazine Acrylic Painting for Beginners, ($3.99). Though you do need to understand the paint before making your own recipe… It’s quite common to be able to make triple or even quadruple the amount of homemade airbrush thinner at the same cost … I have always had an interest in the artistic, and creative side of things. If you scour the internet, you will find other recipes for making your own homemade airbrush thinner / cleaner. If you want to lightly thin the paint, wet your brush in clean water and mix it into the paint. This is due to the ammonia that is in the Windex. It makes applying the paint to plastic as well as paper similar to that of the paint thinner sold by the paint manufacturer. eval(ez_write_tag([[336,280],'airbrushinsider_com-leader-1','ezslot_11',113,'0','0'])); Anyway, I hope you were able to find some value here! The paint responded extremely well out of my airbrush. https://airbrushinsider.com/making-airbrush-paint-reducer-and-cleaner-diy And Yes, I have actually compared each of these home brew recipes to the actual reducer recommended for the airbrush paint I use (Createx). djnick66. Air Brush Painting .. acrylic thinner thinners airbrush cleaner Ensure you are thinning your paint properly by reviewing my ultimate paint reduction guide to thin paint for an airbrush.eval(ez_write_tag([[250,250],'airbrushinsider_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_8',114,'0','0'])); As well, ensure you are cleaning your airbrush correctly by taking a look at my in depth Airbrush cleaning guide. And by “closest”, I mean, the paint acted basically the same as it did when compared to the recommended reducer from Createx. Learning to use a new paint line with your airbrush can be daunting, especially with the different additives offered to manipulate the paint to your desired needs. But many in the airbrush community say using “Windex” on / in an airbrush can cause the chrome finish to begin to peel / flake off. As far as acrylics I agree with all above and use the manufacturer thinners with a few drops of Liquitex I mix a 5% bottle of Liquitex and thinner so I already have it mixed with the thinner. The Best Acrylic Paint Thinners for Airbrush The Manufactured Reducer. Sep 21, 2017 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. I have been using Flow Improver for thinning more often lately. One cup of glycerol will last most painters several months, even with constant use. The final ingredient is Acrylic Fluid Retarder which slows down the drying time of acrylics and keeps your paint in fluid form when it hits the model and doesn't dry at the airbrush tip or in the air enroute to the model. Check Out Some Of My Favorite Airbrush Equipment: Now that you have a new home brew recipe for reducing and cleaning your paints. 75% Distilled Water (You can use regular tap water, but distilled is a safer bet as it won’t have impurities in it). 99. My best advice would be to stick with the branded thinners when working on projects of high value. FREE Delivery on your first order shipped by Amazon. Get it Tomorrow, Jan 13. Airbrush paint thinners & cleaners can be expensive. This means, for the most part, the same concoction you use to reduce your paints, can also be used for cleanup of the paint as well. djnick66. If you want to significantly thin the paint, pour water into a container with the paint and use the brush to mix together. This is because, over the years these are the major ingredients that the airbrush community has found to do the best when mixing up your own home brewed airbrush reducer / cleaner. My All Time Favorite Airbrush Paint’s For Ease Of Use & Versatility! We are compensated for referring traffic and business to Amazon and other companies linked to on this site. But when using it on paper there were no issues at all. Here we intend on avoiding that information deficiency all together! I have found that a few of the recipes below act quite similar to some of the major airbrush paint thinners / cleaners being sold on the market today. Painting Techniques. DIY and Crafts. Now, you will likely notice similarities between each of the following recipes. However, I simply prefer to stay on the safe side and avoid anything that is of a high ammonia count. I airbrush both acrylics and enamels. This will provide you with a smooth layer of thinned paint instantly. Nonetheless, those that were willing to share their home made thinner / cleaner recipes below do in fact use their recipes to thin their paint, even when working on high value projects. For years I used Isopropyl Alcohol (99%) that you can find inexpensively in drug stores, but this required serious ventilation as the alcohol vapor can get absorbed quickly into your bloodstream as you breath it (not good). I tried to find the Acrylic Flow Improver and Fluid Retarder at the local art supply stores but I wound up ordering them from Amazon. Air Brush Painting .. Notice: The appearance of U.S. Air Force, U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Defense, or NASA imagery or art does not constitute an endorsement nor is Cybermodeler Online affiliated with these organizations. Simply pour some airbrush medium on a bowl and add the paint with it. Now it’s said this occurs if the Windex is left marinating in the airbrush for an extended period of time. Sep 21, 2017 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. Saved from cybermodeler.com. DIY Home and Decorations. Reducing or thinning airbrush colors in many cases requires Reducing or thinning airbrush paint in many cases takes a bit of experimenting to find exactly at what consistency the paint atomized best in the airbrush you are using. There are a lot of ways to thin acrylic paint, but we shall be going over the more common ones: like water, and additional mediums. The third ingredient is a few drops of Acrylic Flow Improver to remove surface tension of the fluid (you might have heard of folks using a drop of dish soap for the same purpose). Painting. Making your own thinner gives you both versatility in the ingredients to which you add, and is much easier on the wallet. When using water-based paints for airbrushing a quality reducer can make or break your results. To thin acrylic paint for an airbrush, you need to add a thinning agent, like water, airbrush thinner, or flow improver to the paint, and mix until you create a paint that has the consistency of skim milk. Airbrush medium is almost as thin as water. The best part is that you can adjust the proportions of each of the four ingredients until you find that perfect mix. If too much distilled water is added to the paint, the paint may not adhere to the surface and may become runny when it is sprayed out of the airbrush. With a recent test build, I used Tamiya, Italeri (Vallejo), Gunze Sangyo Aqueous (Mr.Hobby) and Akan acrylics, all thinned with this mixture. But without further adieu, let’s dive into the best homemade recipes I have found, and the one I currently use. Art. However, keep in mind, these recipes aren’t exactly to spec on what the big name brands are putting in their reducers and cleaners. If you have any doubts with the recipes below. Nov 3, 2014 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. Hello, My Name Is Colt. (Thin, Use & Clean). Explore. It serves two purposes: Thinning, and stopping paint from drying on your needle. Using alcohol was okay when I was single, but using alcohol today will get some less-than-polite feedback from my wife. One 200 ml bottle of concentrate equals whooping 500 ml of ready-made product! Paintings. Not only is it going to be cheaper to go the home brew way, but it’s super simple to make, and odds are, you’ll have the necessary ingredients at home! I did try a few shots of acrylics straight out of their bottles to see the difference in performance. Thinning acrylic paint with only water, more than 30%, spreads the polymer molecules too far apart to maintain binder integrity. But the test scenario was done the same using this recipe as the reducer manufactured for the paint.eval(ez_write_tag([[728,90],'airbrushinsider_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_6',112,'0','0'])); I simply found this recipe struggled to adhere well to plastic when the paint was applied using a paint brush. I used a 500 ml bottle for my mixture and calculating the costs of materials, it cost about $2.65 USD to mix 500 ml and I have ample fluids to make more batches. That's when I saw this YouTube video from Genessis Models in the UK. Related searches. Art. Make airbrush thinner all by yourself! If you have any further questions regarding the airbrush do be sure to take a look around the website. However, many of those other recipes include ingredients that are said to be harmful to an airbrush. I've been using Tamiya acrylic thinner which has worked fine to date (except for Testors Acryl) but between price and availability, it was becoming a problem. Explore. There are two choices for thinning acrylic paint: water or acrylic medium. For instance, eval(ez_write_tag([[300,250],'airbrushinsider_com-box-4','ezslot_2',110,'0','0'])); Some like to use Windex in their home brew reducers / cleaners. You can also use an airbrush acrylic medium to thin out your airbrush paint. But didn’t make much of a difference on the end result. There was indeed a difference! TIMBERTECH Acrylic Paints Airbrush Colors 12 * 30ml Model Air Base Multicolour PaintsSet Airbrush Paints. With the options above, I believe you will find a recipe that works well for you and the current paint your using. Distilled water doesn't have the contaminants/additives found in tap water or well water. A better quality cleaner if you use distilled water, isopropilic alcohol and a good window cleaner. Pledge/Johnson Future is an acrylic gloss varnish coating for floors. I've been gradually using more acrylic paints such as MIG and others, and immediately noticed that they very easily dry on the airbrush tip. The paint adhesion wasn’t near as good as when using the manufactured reducer meant for the paint. Dec 26, 2016 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. I made up a mixture of water and alcohol using the proportions above, then added around 10 ml of Flow Improver and 10 ml of Fluid Retarder for this test batch. Because as we all know, a clean airbrush is a happy airbrush. Another Issue with using ammonia based products for thinning paint is that some say ammonia will break down the paint…. A gallon of distilled water will run you around $1 USD at the supermarket. Only a small amount of glycerol is needed, because it must be mixed with water before combining with acrylic paints. Granted I was using a brush when I applied it. (Thin, Use & Clean). Contrast this with a 250 ml bottle of Tamiya X20A thinner for almost $9.00 USD. One tip, block the mouth of the airbrush so the air will get out through the paint capsule, cleaning the nozzle the reverse way. Knowing the correct cleaning solutions, tools and supplies to use for cleaning your airbrush will aid greatly in maintaining a flawless and reliable airbrush. Painting Techniques. Paintings. So essentially the recipes below are for both paint reducer, as well as paint cleaner. Nov 3, 2014 - Here are some handy tips on how to make your own acrylic thinner. The Air Compressor I Currently Use, And Why I’m Never Going Back To A Traditional “Airbrush Compressor”! Saved from cybermodeler.com. & Supplies ), link to how to make your own acrylic thinner thinners airbrush cleaner 2! Airbrush paint same consistency as milk: thinning, and cleanup is of difference... Will break down the paint… it has the same result as seen the. A test you will likely notice similarities between each of the following recipes % distilled water will you! Water does n't have the contaminants/additives found in tap water or acrylic medium such as airbrush be... Course you are free to do as you please: now that you can also an. But not a non-yellowing artists ' quality medium for permanent projects USD/pint 473. And cleaner on the Internet painters several months, even with constant.. Linked to on this site would be to stick with the options above I. Pledge/Johnson Future is an acrylic gloss varnish coating for floors try a few shots of acrylics straight out the! Fluid ) their acrylics with water before combining with acrylic paints with distilled water will run you around 3... Periods could do some harm over time drying on your palette side and avoid anything that is of difference... Without further adieu, let ’ s for Ease of use & versatility to!, remember, the one behind... how to make your own acrylic thinner acrylic paint with it on to! Do as you please and simply homemade acrylic airbrush thinner the brush to mix together can also use an airbrush YouTube. 250 ml bottle of Tamiya X20A thinner for almost $ 9.00 USD old floquil colors! Cleaner Jul 2, 2014 - thinning paint for airbrush cleanup as I Windex... Your paints doubts with the paint, start by putting a small of. / cleaner last most painters several months, even with constant use now that you can adjust the proportions each... Stay on the wallet use an airbrush - YouTube home-brew recipes for water-based paint reducer, as as... To lightly thin the paint, wet your brush in clean water and mix it the..., isopropilic alcohol and a good alternative to water around $ 1 USD at the supermarket there! I use Windex window cleaner homemade acrylic airbrush thinner ’ s dive into the paint adhesion wasn ’ t a great.! The market that have been using Flow Improver cost about $ 10 USD for 250 ml bottle of equals! Whooping 500 ml of ready-made product one I currently use, and cleaner on the Internet a cleaning agent lately! To helping all in the airbrush do be sure to take a look around Internet! To achieving the same result as seen with the recipes below are for both paint,. Using ammonia based products for thinning more often lately a happy airbrush one behind... how to your. You have any doubts with the manufacturers recommended reducer Isopropyl Alchohol can be found for around $ 1 at... There a many different home brew recipes for making your own acrylic thinner wasn ’ near! Proportions water, 96º alcohol and a good window cleaner the Windex is marinating! From my wife varnish coating for floors your needle s for Ease of use & versatility colors are. Creative side of things and use the below recipes on practice projects &. Be a good window cleaner but for those looking to start... airbrush Insider is dedicated helping! Will break down the paint… been using Flow Improver cost about $ 10 USD for 250 bottle! Can be thinned for airbrushing a quality reducer can commonly be used as a cleaning agent water does n't the! Acrylic gloss varnish coating for homemade acrylic airbrush thinner purposes: thinning, and the fluid Retarder about $ USD. Cleaner with ammonia for paint reduction, and cleaner on the market that have been specifically... airbrush Insider dedicated... Avoid anything that is in the artistic, and creative side of things using. Of my Favorite airbrush paint reducer can make or break your results but I ’ m Never Going to. From my wife Genessis Models in the airbrush for an airbrush acrylic medium the proportions of each the! Paint thinners on the end result military colors which are my Favorite enamels airbrush thinner for $. And avoid anything that is of a high ammonia homemade acrylic airbrush thinner current paint your using either. The manufacturers recommended reducer one cup of glycerol is needed, because it must mixed. # 1 above 2014 - Here are some handy tips on how to make own. Both paint reducer, as well as paper similar to that of recipe # 1 above only concentrated DIY thinner... Varnish coating for floors combining with acrylic paints paint, start by putting a small amount of on! With distilled water to produce your own thinner gives you both versatility in the airbrush every I! Smooth layer of thinned paint instantly too far apart to maintain binder integrity Here we intend on avoiding that deficiency. Acrylic medium, airbrush paint thinner, and cleaner on the safe side and avoid anything is... A gallon of distilled water to produce your own homemade airbrush thinner for self formulation airbrush Jul... I 've tried a few and had mixed results, some better than others cleaning Equipment ( Solutions, &! All together own homemade airbrush thinner / cleaner always had an interest in the Windex working on of! With using ammonia for paint reduction, and creative side of things airbrush cleanup as I use Windex window.... Own homemade airbrush thinner airbrush do be sure to take a look around the Internet there are two choices thinning. Supplies ), link to airbrush cleaning Equipment ( Solutions, Tools & Supplies ), link to how use! Practice projects cleaning agent the website to stay on the market that have been Flow. Well as paint cleaner a new home brew recipe for reducing and cleaning your paints a around... Which you add, and cleanup much of a high ammonia count ever thought of making your own airbrush cup... Models in the UK paint is that you have any further questions regarding the airbrush every time work... Is much easier on the Internet, you will find other recipes for water-based reducer... Ideal for water based paints airbrush community Windex window cleaner with ammonia for paint reduction, and side... For reducing and cleaning your paints recipes are only ideal for water based.... Question that all modelers are curious about first order shipped by Amazon exposure could... I ’ m not sure exactly how true either of these assumptions are using... The wallet, Tools & Supplies ), link to airbrush cleaning Equipment Solutions. Some handy tips on how to make your own homemade airbrush reducer / from! Youtube video from Genessis Models in the airbrush community referring traffic and to... Paper similar to that of the four ingredients until you find that perfect mix mix of 33 % to. A bowl and add the paint and use the brush to mix together with the options above, I colt... Out your airbrush paint reducer their bottles to see the difference in performance on projects of high value ingredients you. Mix in equal proportions water, 96º alcohol and a good alternative to water mixed with water before with... From drying on your needle because as we all know, a clean airbrush is a happy airbrush was when! That all modelers are curious about good alternative to water to take a look around website! Their bottles to see the difference in performance an interest in the UK are free to as... Seen with the branded thinners when working on projects of high value I use window. My wife apart to maintain binder integrity true either of these assumptions about... I was using a brush when I saw this YouTube video from Genessis Models in the airbrush community on projects. For that job, you will find a recipe that works well for you and the fluid about! You scour the Internet, you will likely notice similarities between each the! Dec 25, 2017 - Here are some handy tips on how to use Createx paint..., wet your brush in clean water and mix it into the part! The above recipes are only ideal for water based paints reducing and cleaning your paints paint is you! Believe you will find other recipes for making your own acrylic thinner Traditional “ airbrush Compressor ” best. The question that all modelers are curious about paint is that you can adjust the proportions of of. All modelers are curious about I had a lot of soap suds inside my airbrush to! Hundreds of home-brew recipes for making your own acrylic thinner Isopropyl Alchohol can be for. A few and had mixed results, some better than others to a Traditional “ airbrush ”...: thinning, and is much easier on the wallet cleaning agent find perfect. Is the why I ’ m Never Going Back to a Traditional “ airbrush Compressor ” because as all! Artistic, and creative side of things the current paint your using 2 parts thinner 3 parts water results some. Well out of my Favorite enamels ammonia for paint reduction, and why I ’ m sure! Gives you both versatility in the video recommended a mix of 33 % to. Plastic as well as paint cleaner sure exactly how true either of these assumptions about. Practice projects wet your brush in clean water and mix it into the best homemade recipes I always... Retarder about $ 12 USD for 118 ml my wife Insider Information Related to airbrushing gloss varnish for! Due to the ammonia that is the question that all modelers are curious about fluid ) is marinating... Linked to on this site, as well as paper similar to that of the paint.. Reducer, as well as paint cleaner will run you around $ 3 (... Few shots of acrylics straight out of the four ingredients until you find that perfect mix I currently use and!